tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post2442295766523088791..comments2023-08-27T06:02:15.849-07:00Comments on Back To The Egg: A new president, a new precedent...Gingerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10633249243313445632noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-91740767847043038252008-11-09T05:54:00.000-08:002008-11-09T05:54:00.000-08:00LOL Zedd! I hate it when genius becomes truncated....LOL Zedd! I hate it when genius becomes truncated. We wait with bated breath. =)Gingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10633249243313445632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-77934921252364771202008-11-09T05:51:00.000-08:002008-11-09T05:51:00.000-08:00It seems you forgot to include the rest of your co...It seems you forgot to include the rest of your comment, Zedd. Try again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-26863326559177367222008-11-09T05:49:00.000-08:002008-11-09T05:49:00.000-08:00Not sure what happened to the rest of my comment. ...Not sure what happened to the rest of my comment. Darn it, it was BRILLIANT! :o)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-73600323329665207062008-11-08T21:20:00.000-08:002008-11-08T21:20:00.000-08:00: Dave,You didn't answer my questions. You kinda ...: Dave,<BR/><BR/>You didn't answer my questions. You kinda made whatever point that you wanted to make regardless of my question. Lets try this again.<BR/><BR/>" ZEDD: Is it possible to be liberal and not change to accommodate the changing ideals of the people?<BR/><BR/>DAVE: Definitely, because the basic values of liberalism are part of human nature and natural law, not subject to political fashion."<BR/><BR/>I'd rather we stay away from the premise that there is a natural code that all humans live by. I think that we have discussed this before. The notion of natural law is an arbitrary one. The only things that most humans agree upon is that incest is bad and telling a lie is bad (I think there has only been one tribe somewhere that rewarded lying). I don't think there is such a thing as natural law really.<BR/><BR/><BR/>The question was not pertaining to political fashion but to individuals' ideals and their wants and pursuits? What makes people happy changes. Not voting and getting equal pay for equal pay was fine with many women in the past. Many were happy with their position. Off course today, that would be unthinkable; a quick way to make a woman "unhappy". Also, societies change. The items that we monitor in order to keepAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-10017429625928856892008-11-08T07:02:00.000-08:002008-11-08T07:02:00.000-08:00Terry - to begin with, there is no such thing as &...Terry - to begin with, there is no such thing as 'too long' with me. ~*wink*~ Blogspot may disagree, but as long as it goes in, speak freely. <BR/>At least that liberty hasn't been really challenged - yet!<BR/><BR/>Thank you so much for your input as well! Always welcome, this you know. Did we not hold each other together by 'inputting & opinionizing' each other into the wee hours during those radical 60's & 70's? And look how wonderfully the two of us turned out! =) <BR/><BR/>You've made excellent points here. Can we hope for change on this issue like the rest? I believe it's only a matter of time now. As Barack Obama...& yes, thousands of voters have shown, we can make changes. Changes not dreamed of even 10 short years ago.<BR/><BR/>If we can continue to avoid falling into fear mongers claptrap rhetoric, we can step out of the superstitious dark ages.<BR/>Yes, We Can.Gingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10633249243313445632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-13189456376872313022008-11-08T06:34:00.001-08:002008-11-08T06:34:00.001-08:00You'd better check with Ruvy on this. He probably ...You'd better check with Ruvy on this. He probably has information that Emanuel is a closet muslim who secretly sneaks into Palestine where he is serviced by his harem. In consideration that Jews are always the victim, it cannot be assumed that anyone - including many Jews - actually support them.<BR/><BR/>BAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-53210025733332309912008-11-08T06:34:00.000-08:002008-11-08T06:34:00.000-08:00Rahm Emanuel and his siblings are very interesting...Rahm Emanuel and his siblings are very interesting. In fact, the whole family is interesting.<BR/><BR/>Charlie Rose interviewed the 3 brothers a couple months ago. You can probably find the interview on Rose's website. He also replayed it on his PBS program.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-14559598846370503522008-11-08T06:33:00.000-08:002008-11-08T06:33:00.000-08:00Rahm Israel Emanuel officially accepted his appoin...Rahm Israel Emanuel officially accepted his appointment by Obama as Chief of Staff on November 6 2008. The Israeli press & media were beside themselves with applause and cheers. <BR/>Rahm Emanuel is a former investment banker who made millions on Wall Street. Emanuel's sponsor is the Zionist , Bruce Wasserstein, who is now the head of Lazard Banking. <BR/>Rahm Israel Emanuel is the son of an Israeli physician who was a gun runner for the Irgun, an Israeli terrorist group that murdered Arab civilians in Palestine between 1931 and 1948. Upon his son's appointment as Obama's Chief of Staff, Dr. Benjamin Emanuel ("Auerbach" was his original surname) had some choice slanderous words for the Arabs: <BR/><BR/>In an interview with Ma'ariv: "Obviously he will influence the president to be pro-Israel," he was quoted as saying. "Why wouldn't he be? What is he, an Arab? He's not going to clean the floors of the White House." <BR/>The Ma'ariv article also quoted Dr. Emanuel as saying that his son spends most summers visiting in Tel Aviv, and that he speaks Hebrew, but not fluently <BR/>more: <BR/>http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1225910047157 <BR/><BR/>Emanuel, Clinton & Mossad:<BR/>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=emanuel%2C+clinton%2CmossadAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-9840985098160642952008-11-08T06:32:00.000-08:002008-11-08T06:32:00.000-08:00But, for now, I just wanted to say, whatever you n...But, for now, I just wanted to say, whatever you name your new party, you'll want to make sure it doesn't appeal to this guy.<BR/><BR/>I believe your friend with the signs was expressing his racial hatred of the Irish clan of Morans.<BR/><BR/>Your definition of socialism is small and it could be loaded. I need to clarify some things. Would you consider having a fiscal policy to be a form of socialism? Would you consider balancing the budget to be a form of socialism?<BR/><BR/>No and no, because a fiscal policy can be almost anything from just coining money to massive wealth redistribution. By the same measure, there are lots of ways to balance a budget. Some might be socialistic, others not.<BR/><BR/>Do you think progressives dislike the notion of "liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?<BR/><BR/>IMO progressivism can be liberal in nature, so probably not. On the other hand, progressivism can also be socialist, in which case their liberty and happiness would be obtained on a mass level rather than an individual level and would likely come at the cost of suffering for one group to benefit another.<BR/><BR/>Is it possible to be liberal and not change to accommodate the changing ideals of the people?<BR/><BR/>Definitely, because the basic values of liberalism are part of human nature and natural law, not subject to political fashion.<BR/><BR/>Is it possible to be conservative and change to ensure the liberty and pursuits of the people?<BR/><BR/>If the country has drifted away from its liberal roots then it would be conservative to promote change back to those roots. Change which restores traditional values might be considered counter-change and it is certainly conservative.<BR/><BR/>DaveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-85041877434387966102008-11-08T06:31:00.000-08:002008-11-08T06:31:00.000-08:00This election represented many things to many peop...This election represented many things to many people. While people will long refer to it as such, I don't believe that Obama's chief accomplishment will, in the end, be that he was the first black president. That will be incidental.<BR/><BR/>But looking at this through the eyes of Black Americans and many non-blacks as well, Obama's win is momentous. While it hardly represents the end of racism or racial issues in this country, it is a definitive turning of the page. It is emblematic of the distance this nation has moved since the beginnings of the civil rights movement or the murder of Dr. King 40 years ago.<BR/><BR/>Not all bridges have been crossed, but a major chasm has been traversed. The tears in the eyes of many of the hundreds of thousands who made it to Grant Park in Chicago, or Greenpoint in Brooklyn, or even Rock Center in Manhattan Tuesday evening was testament to what Obama's victory means to them.<BR/><BR/>The political ramifications to the Democrats and the Republicans are another matter. People will likely argue otherwise, but I don't see how this election was NOT a mandate for Democrats and a harsh rebuke against Republicans. I don't believe it has so much to do with ideology, but rather simply performance. Republicans have performed badly - very badly - over the past 8 years. Voters don't take well to that. Now it's payback. <BR/><BR/>The Dems were on the shit end of the same stick during the Clinton years when the Reps took over Congress spouting their so called "contract with America." They have moved the country toward the right ever since. In so doing, they outwitted themselves through their own hubris and mismanagement. <BR/><BR/>Democrats have a golden opportunity not only to put forward their agenda, but to "get it right" for this country. If managed properly, the Dems could oversee an overhaul of our country's political system, its economy and its foreign relations. Great things could come during the next 4 to 8 years. I have hopes.<BR/><BR/>Sadly, human nature being what it is, I expect that eventually, the Dems will do much the same as the Reps have done. They will come to believe that they can do about anything and get away with it. Memories are short. The cycle will begin anew. Can Obama and company avoid those pitfalls? We'll see.<BR/><BR/>BAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-88359241524615154222008-11-08T06:30:00.000-08:002008-11-08T06:30:00.000-08:00I know that this is a historic election for Africa...I know that this is a historic election for African Americans, but I think there is too much emphasis put on the race issue. I like Obama because he seems like he will make a positive impact on polictics, the American economy and the World. He stands for ideologies that are different than the past eitht years and I think he can be one of the best Presidents this country has had. Unlike the last eight years, when he gets up to speak publically and adlib answers to questions, I think I can feel proud to be an American again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-66131631031116984842008-11-08T06:29:00.000-08:002008-11-08T06:29:00.000-08:00Dave,Sure you did.... Good start though. Your defi...Dave,<BR/><BR/>Sure you did.... Good start though. <BR/><BR/>Your definition of socialism is small and it could be loaded. I need to clarify some things. Would you consider having a fiscal policy to be a form of socialism? Would you consider balancing the budget to be a form of socialism? <BR/><BR/>Your definitions of liberal and conservative are spot on. Your Daving of them is classic. But you did good.<BR/><BR/>Now<BR/><BR/><BR/>Do you think progressives dislike the notion of "liberty and the pursuit of happiness"? <BR/><BR/>Is it possible to be liberal and not change to accommodate the changing ideals of the people? <BR/><BR/>Is it possible to be conservative and change to ensure the liberty and pursuits of the people? <BR/><BR/>Have at it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-8096792961187973562008-11-08T05:30:00.000-08:002008-11-08T05:30:00.000-08:00Hi Ginger et al, This may get a little long, but I...Hi Ginger et al, <BR/><BR/>This may get a little long, but I just wanted to say, "Congratulations!" to you and everyone who voted for Obama. Everyone I know here in Canada is cheering, too.<BR/><BR/>Ironically, despite the great election results, a large number of those in California who voted for Obama, many being African-American, also voted against same-gender marriage. I truly hope Obama will remind people that discrimination is discrimination, be it against race or sexual orientation.<BR/><BR/>Here's a quote from an editorial in The Toronto Star today about Proposition 8 which was voted upon in California during this last election: <BR/><BR/>"Proposition 8, which was supported with tens of millions of dollars from Utah's Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, passed because of the large turnout of African-Americans, 70 per cent of whom supported it.<BR/><BR/>"Ironic, because a little more than a generation ago, unions between blacks and whites were illegal in most of the U.S. What's more, president-elect Barack Obama's parents were a mixed-race couple who married in Hawaii where 'racial purity' was a non-issue.<BR/><BR/>You'd think the African-American voters of California would remember those ugly miscegenation laws which were not only relics of the slave era, but also said to be God's will.<BR/><BR/>In fact, the same people who would go on to rail against gays today used to preach against mixed marriages. Come on down Jerry Falwell, who predicted that such unions would 'destroy our (white) race.' He was also the guy who, two days after 9/11, went on Pat Robertson's 700 Club and blamed, among others, the "gays and the lesbians" for the terrorist attacks.<BR/><BR/>But today, the 'white race' is still alive and well, and as powerful as ever."<BR/><BR/>That's an interesting comment, that African-Americans today have to some degree joined the "white race" to discriminate against another minority. Maybe Obama will address this voter base so they can see their bigotry, and then help alleviate the distress of the gay/lesbian minority. <BR/><BR/>That said, I know Obama'll have his plate full with a slew of other problems, too: the financial crisis, health care, wars, ....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12541404725167433547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-50541003194454170462008-11-07T19:03:00.000-08:002008-11-07T19:03:00.000-08:00Thanks Dave,I will respond to that post later as I...Thanks Dave,<BR/><BR/>I will respond to that post later as I'll be AFK for awhile.<BR/><BR/>But, for now, I just wanted to say, whatever you name your new party, you'll want to make sure it doesn't appeal to this guy.<BR/><BR/>HA! That is one of my favorite photos. HILARIOUS!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-79635764179699561802008-11-07T19:02:00.000-08:002008-11-07T19:02:00.000-08:00Thanks again biffle!Boy did you eat your Wheaties ...Thanks again biffle!<BR/><BR/>Boy did you eat your Wheaties this morning? Your on it. Short and to the point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-20905353891883783652008-11-07T19:01:00.000-08:002008-11-07T19:01:00.000-08:00The accusation "socialist!" has lost it's sting si...The accusation "socialist!" has lost it's sting since the demise of russian communism 20 years ago.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-26525755042577410762008-11-07T19:00:00.000-08:002008-11-07T19:00:00.000-08:00Baritone,I have to say I am impressed with everyth...Baritone,<BR/><BR/>I have to say I am impressed with everything you say in this post, and I concur.<BR/><BR/>The only thing I would dispute is your reference to Clinton being a brilliant man in many respects. I know he was astute, but its worth noting that he never got 50 percent of the vote in 1992 or 1996, lost both houses of Congress during his tenure and was impeached. Just because the media repeatedly calls someone brilliant, doesn't make it so.<BR/><BR/>Slink Willy brilliant, na, just very politically astute. I don't like to belittle those truly brilliant by confusing it with someone slick. JMO.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-22286439900416004912008-11-07T18:59:00.000-08:002008-11-07T18:59:00.000-08:00I wrote my comment before yours was posted, Zedd. ...I wrote my comment before yours was posted, Zedd. So tell me what's wrong with my definitions? They're within a reasonable margin of standard definitions, even dictionary definitions.<BR/><BR/>DaveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-52754817311899950472008-11-07T18:58:00.000-08:002008-11-07T18:58:00.000-08:00I knew it would work. :)I knew it would work. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-12127695360210955732008-11-07T18:57:00.000-08:002008-11-07T18:57:00.000-08:00You are saying that meanings of words don't change...You are saying that meanings of words don't change? This contradicts reality. It's called semantic drift in linguistics. We have a whole field, historical linguistics, devoted to the study of practically this single thing.<BR/>I'm saying that the definitions of ideologies and philosophies do not change, even if how the terminology is misused fluctuates.<BR/><BR/>But, that aside could you elaborate on your definition of socialism? Maybe even liberal and conservative, if you get the chance or are interested?<BR/>Really simple definitions as I see them.<BR/><BR/>At its most basic socialism is a system which allocates wealth to people according to their needs rather than their efforts. In more general application it is the practice of providing for the welfare of large groups or the population as a whole without consideration of the preferences or rights of individuals.<BR/><BR/>Liberalism is the belief in a society founded on respect for the rights of individuals, particularly the rights to life, liberty and property. Liberal government is one founded on rights and designed to protect the rights of individuals and minorities against the actions of other individuals or groups, including the majority.<BR/><BR/>Conservatism is the belief that radical change is undesirable and that traditional values and practices should be preserved. IMO it is only barely a political ideology. It's more like a methodology.<BR/><BR/>I think that because the US was founded on principles of liberalism, it is inherently conservative to be a liberal, so the way those terms are used is totally misleading. I prefer the term 'progressive' as the opposite of 'conservative.'<BR/><BR/>So there you are for what it's worth.<BR/><BR/>DaveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-45484337058908830452008-11-07T18:56:00.000-08:002008-11-07T18:56:00.000-08:00Cindy, you say -"But, that aside could you elabora...Cindy, you say -"But, that aside could you elaborate on your definition of socialism? Maybe even liberal and conservative, if you get the chance or are interested?"<BR/><BR/><BR/>Good luck with that.<BR/><BR/>That would be the starting point, you'd think but t'aint gonna happen. He just likes sayi'n stuff. You actually care about your integrity as a thinking person and cogent contributor, especially on such a forum. It shocks me that Dave doesn't seem to care that he contradicts himself post after post substantiating the charges of his being disingenuous. He doesn't seem to mind that he comes off as really dense and block headed. He enjoys minutia and will elaborate on details that are inconsequential but misses the big picture all together, consistanty.<BR/><BR/>When you get his definitions of socialism, conservative and liberal, look for me all over BC's political section and tell me to come see. It will be quite the day!<BR/><BR/>What I suspect will happen is that he'll turn everything around on you to dodge the request or give you some wacky definition that is too vague to decipher than spend the rest of the threat going off topic to evade a pin down. Wager?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-39336614167671715442008-11-07T18:52:00.000-08:002008-11-07T18:52:00.000-08:00on a personal scale, i get what you're saying, dav...on a personal scale, i get what you're saying, dave. you think he's a socialist, and you believe that if he were given free reign, he'd go for it.<BR/><BR/>but, on a political scale, it's an impossibility. that's my point. he CAN'T go whole hog into socialism, so he won't. and at that point, it doesn't matter what he believes in his heart of hearts. it's like if he were actually a muslim. the u.s. wouldn't suddenly become a muslim country. it's just not in the cards.<BR/><BR/>but i still don't think he's a socialist. he's got too much money for that. he's got some ideas that drift towards socialism, and i agree with those ideas. but i've got ideas that some days i would like to live in the mountains and raise chickens. doesn't make me a different person, as i'm a little more complex than that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-11188996047814878222008-11-07T13:04:00.000-08:002008-11-07T13:04:00.000-08:00Was it just me, or were the questions from the rep...Was it just me, or were the questions from the reporters impossible to understand?<BR/><BR/>DaveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-29897530759809581542008-11-07T13:03:00.000-08:002008-11-07T13:03:00.000-08:00I just watched Obama's first new conference. It wa...I just watched Obama's first new conference. It was relatively short and of course, not a lot of substance came out of either his bried opening statement or via the questions coming from the gathered press.<BR/><BR/>Obama is apparently still intent upon another economic stimulus package coming out of Congress preferably before he takes office. Failing that, he stated that it would be his first priority after the inauguration.<BR/><BR/>Little else of substance was laid out which was to be expected. Mainly, I believe that he wanted to introduce his economic advisory staff and describe some of the issues under consideration.<BR/><BR/>He also laid out the strategy for selecting the White House puppy.<BR/><BR/>I just have a sense that our new president will confound everybody who believed they had him pegged into one idealogical hole or another. As I have noted, I think Obama will be much more of a centrist than most would have imagined. Contrary to Dave's predictions, I do believe that he will eclipse Clinton in most regards.<BR/><BR/>Clinton was and is a brilliant man in many respects, but his ego and sexual apetites got in his way. Obama certainly has a large ego. He wouldn't be where he is if he didn't. But personal discipline is, I believe, a greater part of his persona than with Clinton.<BR/><BR/>BAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34540356.post-17410213319070211522008-11-07T13:02:00.000-08:002008-11-07T13:02:00.000-08:00Dave,Zing, my point was that you can rename things...Dave,<BR/><BR/>Zing, my point was that you can rename things and redefine them and they don't actually become something different. Obama was a socialist and is a socialist, but the question is how far he is willing to go in the service of ideology and how much his beliefs will be tempered with pragmatism.<BR/><BR/>Dave,<BR/><BR/>You are saying that meanings of words don't change? This contradicts reality. It's called semantic drift in linguistics. We have a whole field, historical linguistics, devoted to the study of practically this single thing.<BR/><BR/>But, that aside could you elaborate on your definition of socialism? Maybe even liberal and conservative, if you get the chance or are interested?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com